Lustery couple Jack & Jill first became porn performers when they needed a creative solution to an expensive problem. Being both partners and coworkers has given their relationship a unique opportunity to grow.
Aria Vega [00:00:00] [Voiceover] This podcast contains explicit content. Listener's discretion is advised. POV by Lustery explores culture, politics and creativity in the sex industry, one point of view at a time. I'm your host Aria Vega.
Aria Vega [00:00:16] Lustery Couple Jack & Jill are based in Las Vegas, Nevada. Now married, the pair first met in San Francisco at the apartment complex where Jack first laid eyes on Jill eight years ago.
Jack [00:00:29] [Interview] Yeah, I distinctly remember... She wasn't my next door neighbor, she lived a few down. But whenever you see a beautiful woman walking down the hallway, that memory kind of sticks with you, as a guy. So I think I noticed you first, but...
Jill [00:00:44] Yeah, it's hard to say. Me, I would see him a lot at the mailbox, you know, just doing like your ordinary tasks...
Jack [00:00:50] ...taking the trash out...
Jill [00:00:52] Yeah, so just seeing each other in passing, he just seemed like a really easygoing, nice guy. Wasn't, you know, didn't do anything that made me feel like he was trying to [do anything].
Jack [00:01:07] I'm really shy. I have a hard time even just making eye contact with people. So I would just kind of, you know, do a little innocent little wave. Definitely would not hit on her or anything like that.
Jill [00:01:21] Yeah, it took him a while to ask for my number.
Aria Vega [00:01:26] And what was the first date that you went on?
Jack [00:01:28] We went and got sushi. So I have this thing, if I really like a girl, I will bring her out to sushi. And then if she doesn't like sushi, I know it's not going to work well! But in all seriousness, yeah, it was a nice dinner. I locked my keys in my car, so...
Jill [00:01:48] He did, I had to drive.
Jack [00:01:49] That was really cool.
Jill [00:01:50] Yeah, he just seemed like a really nice and genuine person. And that's definitely the type that I go for, just the easygoing kind of guy.
Aria Vega [00:02:00] And were either of you nervous at all about having a crush on your neighbor? Because I feel like I would have been very anxious about dating somebody I lived so close to, and if we broke up, we'd have to share the elevator and it would be awkward...
Jack [00:02:13] Totally nervous! I think I was more just nervous about talking to someone where I didn't want to screw things up, I guess is the way I look at it. But yeah, there's always that if things don't go right... It's kind of like dating at work, it's just something you try not to do. You're going to see that person all the time. But it was worth the risk, in this case. I passed her and then I turned around, and this sounds kind of weird, but I tapped her on the back.
Jill [00:02:45] He did. I could feel his hands shaking. I was like, OK, he might like me!
Jack [00:02:51] Well because I passed her, and I kind of try to work the courage up to go talk to her, because I every time I passed, I was like, You know, I'm going to talk to her, I'm going to talk to her, just something! So we had made small talk a few times here and there. And then finally, I was like, This is your chance, go do it. And I thought multiple times about what to say.
Jill [00:03:16] I was just excited to meet someone. We both actually moved around a similar timeframe from the East Coast to the West Coast. So both of us didn't really know a whole lot of people other than our coworkers. So it was just like nice to meet a person outside of work that I could hang out with.
Aria Vega [00:03:32] In your profile, you describe yourselves as being opposites who attract. In what ways do you think of yourselves as being opposites?
Jill [00:03:39] I would just say our communication styles are very different. I communicate a lot and I think out loud, he is more like an independent worker. He likes to kind of plan things on his own and then meet back up to sort of discuss things. I'm kind of like, Let's talk now, I have ideas, let's do it! So doing business together, it's been good for us because we've kind of learned about those things. It's helped us get more aware of that.
Jack [00:04:06] It was challenging at times. I mean, working with your partner is an incredible feeling, but it's going to be rocky because you have to separate your relationship from being coworkers. And the communication style when you're working together is different than when you're in a relationship, in my opinion. So it was challenging at times just because of how we make decisions, how we think through things. As Jill said, she likes to think out loud and kind of bounce ideas off of me. And I like to think really hard about things and then come and say, these are the these are the ideas I have. So that's probably our biggest incompatibility.
Jill [00:04:50] Yeah, and I would say I focus a lot more on like relationships and people, and he is more about things and technology.
Aria Vega [00:04:57] It sounds like those tendencies are very complementary, and that you can teach each other things.
Jack [00:05:02] Totally. I set up all the hardware and she tells me what to do!
Jill [00:05:07] I mean, we lean on each other when we realize it's a weakness of ours. I'll kind of lean on him for that, or he'll lean onto me for other things, like if he gets a little shy with people, I'll start talking.
Jack [00:05:18] And I do.
Aria Vega [00:05:20] So is there anything that that the two of you routinely butt heads about at work or at home?
Jack [00:05:28] Yeah, it's probably the decision-making. It's kind of like an operational thing. So we have a room in our house that's just an office. It's got two computers and we sit next to each other and we work. Sitting next to Jill, it's kind of like being at work with someone who's just always talking to you. That can be great for collaborative atmosphere, and sometimes you do need to constantly talk. But one of my weaknesses is I need quiet when when I work because I get horribly distracted and every time I get distracted, it takes me a few minutes to kind of get back going on what I'm working on. So every once in a while when Jill's just kind of talking out loud as she tends to do which, which is fine, I'll kind of look at her and be like, Please, leave me be!
Jill [00:06:20] So I think for us, a lot of times getting around that— I'm kind of a morning person, and he's more like a night owl. So I'll do a lot of my work in the morning at work, do my thing, get my ideas and like, have it all there after he's had coffee and like, woke up.
Jack [00:06:35] I stay up later than Jill, and I get a few hours of just complete silence to do whatever I need to do or work on things. And so that's kind of how we navigate that situation.
Jill [00:06:49] But yeah, every few months or so, we'll kind of have that same thing and we're like, Oh, gosh, we're doing it again. But I think that's relationships and everyone has their little thing that kind of resurfaces.
Jack [00:07:01] Yeah, it's weird. If people don't like argue every once in a while, or I don't know....
Jill [00:07:07] Yeah, we don't yell. When we were younger, we used to be more aggressive with each other. Now it's more of a discussion that's a little bit more tense.
Aria Vega [00:07:17] So it sounds like you've learned how to fight well over the course of the relationship, and that's so important. I feel like that's that's half the battle of relationships sometimes. So you may be opposites in some ways, but clearly you're very sexually compatible. What was your first time together like?
Jack [00:07:35] This is funny.
Jill [00:07:39] Well, I did give you a head after our first date. Which I don't normally do!
Jack [00:07:45] She slept over at my house.
Jill [00:07:48] I was really excited.
Jack [00:07:50] So the first time we ever hung out there, it wasn't really a date. It was just, after I tapped her on the shoulder, I was like, Hey, we should hang out sometime. And she came over and we did hang out, had a couple of drinks and talked, and it started getting late and she asked if she could stay over, something I was not prepared for. It's a little embarrassing because at the time, I all I had was a box spring and a mattress on the floor. Pretty standard male-living-by-myself bachelor pad...
Aria Vega [00:08:24] But I mean, you had just moved across the country! I would give you a pass for that. You'd just moved from the East Coast to the West Coast like you could only carry so much.
Jack [00:08:34] Yeah, thank you, not everyone's as kind as you! So she slept in my bed, and I remember— again, this is me just being a scared person, I have this idea in my head where you kind of only get one chance to ask someone out. You only kind of get one chance to initiate physical touch. If someone turns you down on a first date or if someone turns you down when you make a sexual advance, I'm kind of lost from there. I don't really know what to do, so I only do that if I think there's like a 99.9% chance things are going to work out. So she slept in my bed. I didn't lay a hand on her...
Jill [00:09:17] He didn't. We just slept next to each other.
Jack [00:09:18] You slept, I could not sleep, it was a little awkward. So I didn't lay a hand on her, and I think she was probably a little confused after that.
Jill [00:09:30] I was. My mom was like, What about that neighbor? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know if he actually likes me or not. But we we end up going on that sushi date, and that's when I gave him head.
Jack [00:09:42] That's when I tried to be a little bit more forward about... The first time was just to hang out, you know, and I don't want to make sexual advances on someone I've built the pretext of I'm just hanging out with. So the second time it was a date. We both knew it was a date, it was very obvious we were on a date. So. I kind of had a hunting license after that, so to speak, in my own mind. Here's this person she's interested in me. She's accepted to go on a date with me.
Jill [00:10:19] Yeah, it was great. I gave him head, and he came in my mouth, and that doesn't normally happen now. He usually he needs sex to have an orgasm.
Jack [00:10:30] Yeah, I do not have orgasms from oral sex.
Jill [00:10:33] It was very memorable, even though it was like quite a while ago. But our first time having sex was a challenge, because he is pretty well-endowed, and I was not a super sexually experienced person, and it was hard for me. It was something we really had to work through, because I would kind of tense up...
Jack [00:10:52] I could tell she just wasn't having a good time.
Jill [00:10:55] Yeah, it was kind of like, we were in a cycle for a while where I was trying to get over learning how to relax, and then also like feeling sort of guilty or sad after the sex, because I wanted him to feel like I was enjoying it, but it was hard.
Jack [00:11:12] And then I would ask her if she enjoys it, and she would say yes, but her body language was saying other things to me. I think we were in that honeymoon phase, where you're trying really hard to please your partner and not being completely honest with each other in order to make each other happy.
Jill [00:11:30] Yeah. Now it's great! Now we know what positions I like to get started with, and what lube is helpful for us, and doing cameos for us is great foreplay. A lot of stuff that we do in public chat gets us ready for the sexual part of the show. So that's something I've learned about my body, that I just need a little bit more time.
Jack [00:11:51] What do you always say about men and women?
Jill [00:11:53] Oh, that a lot of men are like microwaves. You know, they're able to get erection really fast and be ready to go.
Jack [00:11:59] ...you just press the right buttons and hit start.
Jill [00:12:03] And like, women need to preheat.
Jack [00:12:07] Women are like ovens.
Jill [00:12:08] There have definitely been times, where I've just been really ready to go, but in general.
Aria Vega [00:12:16] [Voiceover] Taking lots of time for that preheating process, as they put it, is part of why Jack and Jill love creating content via livestream in addition to their prerecorded videos. The couple regularly hosts impromptu broadcasts of their adventures, and interacts with their viewers in real time. I asked Jack and Jill what else about the livestream format has made them so fond of it.
Jack [00:12:40] [Interview] I love getting immediate feedback and being able to communicate with the people that consume our media. A lot of people... For years, as a man who regularly watched porn growing up, I never heard a porn star talk. I had never heard them, have a regular conversation. I had never heard them say, I like this, I don't like this. And there's so much pressure when people are shooting scenes, and I've learned because I've done a few mainstream scenes, for people to just act like they're having a good time, and that's truly not always the case. I think with the live platform, you get a real reaction from people. Not only do you get access to the more personal side of those individuals, but you get to hear what they really like and don't like. And so to flip back on our viewers, we get to hear what they really like and don't like, too. And and we kind of get on our soapbox every once in a while and like to talk about... Not how fake porn is, but just how much pressure there is to be smiling and moaning and just being so incredibly positive. When a lot of times, based on experiences we've had with people in the industry, they're not really having a good time. There's a lot of pressure to just act like this is the best sex ever.
Jill [00:14:00] Yeah, and it's all like this very long shoot that's kind of condensed into this short period of time, where all the kind of bloopers and things are cut out. So with our livestream, we get to tell people like, Hey, this is real, this is live, this is what's happening. There's so many things I love about livestreaming. We do work with a lot of guests. We do a lot of threesomes together, and I love watching people experience something new for the first time. We love to give people massages, blindfolds, feathers, all kinds of like sensory deprivation type of things. And I love watching someone get treated really nice and enjoy it, and teach the viewers about, This is how you get someone comfortable. This is a really important part of sex. Sex isn't just about penetration or oral sex, there's so much more that's involved in it, and we get just to learn that live. And I think that's really cool.
Jack [00:14:56] We like to do things on our show that connects people to more real life sex because, like Jill said, this is live and in mainstream porn scenes, you don't see the male talent run off to the side and have to get himself hard again. This guy just always has a hard dick, just 24/7 on the scene. And so a lot of guys watch that and they may say, Holy shit, is there something wrong with me? And when we shoot live, some people give me shit, because every once in a while, I'll have to get myself ready, and that is real life. You know, it happens, but I think it's pretty common for a guy to take a few seconds and be like, All right, let me get myself ready here.
Jill [00:15:44] When we have mainstream performers on our show and they're willing to talk about the real real life what's really happening in the shoot, and things that they like about it too, like who they really love shooting for or what was their favorite scene and why. So we get to cover a little bit of everything, and I really like that. I'm always interested, like yeah, what are you into? What was it like?
Aria Vega [00:16:06] That's amazing. I love that this sort of passive education gets into your entertainment, you know, because like you're saying, there are just so many things that get left out of mainstream porn, which is fine, we understand that that goes into what makes it so entertaining for us. But the problem is, in a country that has such poor sex education, people really don't know where that line is. How long have you been making porn together?
Jack [00:16:32] Seven years.
Aria Vega [00:16:32] So most of your relationship, then. How did that get started? Who proposed that you start doing stuff together?
Jack [00:16:38] So to set the stage, to build a little context, Jill had just graduated with her Master's degree. I had just moved out to the West Coast, and and like most Americans that age that went to college, that don't come from money, we had significant student debt loans, and in our case, we were collectively in the hole just under six digits. So just under $100,000 of student loans.
Jill [00:17:05] And we were living in San Francisco, so it was, yeah, it was pretty tough. I was like, I need to find a way to get out of this, because I was working so hard and considering picking up extra shifts, and I didn't feel like I was really living my life. And I saw a documentary, I think it was called Sex Now, I want to say. A lot of it was Streamate focused, and there was a lady on there named Emma Lovett, and she was doing threesomes with her partner. I felt really inspired and I'm not usually— I'm usually a pretty private person, but something about it. I just kind of felt drawn to it.
Jack [00:17:46] Well, I think you and I had tried several other things.
Jill [00:17:50] We did, together. Dog walking...
Jack [00:17:53] Yeah, dog walking actually ended up being the better of all of the ideas that we had, but we got shot down. The apartment we were living in it, one of the few pet-friendly apartment complexes, they said we couldn't advertise for commercial purposes, so that business died right then and there. And that's when we went to back to the drawing table and we're like, All right, what are we going to try now? And that's when she saw Sex Now, and we tried to get on a live streaming website, and Jill liked it a lot more than I did.
Jill [00:18:22] Yeah, it was a lot of pressure on him. I think he had to learn how to get himself ready for performance.
Jack [00:18:29] It's kind of like a rite of passage for a man to totally bomb when...
Jill [00:18:34] We've seen it many times.
Jack [00:18:36] But yeah, that's that's kind of how it started. We were just desperate to make a little extra money, because we realized that if we kept making minimum payments on our loans, we would be in our mid- to late-forties by the time we ended up paying it off, and paying thousands of dollars in interest, so.
Jill [00:18:52] We were motivated.
Aria Vega [00:18:53] Yeah, and you got creative!
Jack [00:18:56] Yeah, we did.
Aria Vega [00:18:57] So you also wrote in your profile that the sex in your house is rarely spontaneous, because you like to slowly get in the mood. What are some of the ways that you'll signal to each other that you're ready to connect?
Jack [00:19:08] Oh, it usually starts with me kind of just telling her that I'm that I'm in the mood, and then Jill will turn me down or tell me she is interested in doing it from there. It's not nearly as much of an issue as it used to be, but we kind of just like to cuddle a little bit...
Jill [00:19:35] Yeah, be more comfortable. Sex on camera, it's very much like very specific positions... It's still enjoyable, but a bit more uncomfortable for my body, just because we have to show the penetration, we have to show specific things that the viewers really like. But when we're off camera, we get to kind of cuddle to start, and we kind of get a little more lazy.
Jack [00:19:58] We revel in the laziness since we since we have to, like, contort ourselves a lot more when we perform on camera. And don't get me wrong, we have amazing sex.
Jill [00:20:10] Yeah, it's still great, it's just different.
Jack [00:20:11] It's just not what we normally do in the bedroom. When we're in the bedroom, it is, you know, spooning, missionary.... It's a lot less creative and it's a lot more oriented towards just being comfortable.
Aria Vega [00:20:26] Tell me a little about the role that massage plays in your sex life. I know that that's a big thing for you.
Jack [00:20:32] Yeah, if Jill's not in the mood, maybe I can rub her legs because she does leg workouts a lot. And so the legs are conveniently located, so I can just rub around that general area, and that will usually help her get into the mood a little bit more.
Jill [00:20:50] Yeah, sometimes we're just massaging each other to massage each other, and it doesn't necessarily lead to sex. It just is more like we're connecting with each other. We want to reward each other in that kind of way, and massage is something that we do is like a reward for each other, for various things.
Jack [00:21:06] Sometimes it's an aftercare thing too, and we also use massage a lot in our shoots. I think it's really important to mention we have a massage table in our studio, and a lot of people when we — especially mainstream performers, which we don't work on mainstream porn very often, but — they're pleasantly surprised when they come to our house and we give them a full body massage as part of their shoot because a lot of times they're used to contorting themselves and doing things that maybe aren't as comfortable, and they get to lay on a massage table and just get spoiled.
Jill [00:21:41] Once you start massaging someone, something just kind of happens. They relax, you relax...
Jack [00:21:45] You get more comfortable with each other.
Jill [00:21:47] Yeah, and then you just kind of can start easing into things.
Jill [00:21:50] We're both both givers, so we actually enjoy doing it. I know I've worked with people that aren't givers, and you can tell based on some how someone gives a massage, whether or not they're they're more of a giver or receiver. And it's not— there's no negative connotation attached to being a receiver, it's just what you enjoy more. And Jill and I both like giving more. We kind of don't like being the center of attention as much as we enjoy putting someone between us and making them feel special, and making them feel like they're the center.
Jill [00:22:23] And we get to do it together as a couple, and I feel like that's really important start of a threesome situation. It shows them that we're both invested in that person, and that we're both comfortable of being intimate together with somebody. Because, you know, some people meet a married couple and they don't know what to think when they're about to have a threesome with them. I know some people might have some reservations, but I think it kind of is that first step to show them, Hey, we're really comfortable. We like doing this to people and we're enjoying it as a couple.
Jack [00:22:54] It's not a guy pressuring his wife into having threesome and, you know, it being about him.
Jill [00:23:01] Yeah, and I think it helps that also some couples like to watch our shows, and I love that, and I feel like we're also trying to make porn or livestreams for couples, too.
Aria Vega [00:23:14] That's Lustery couple Jack & Jill. If you're 18 or older and you love your porn pre-heated and all oiled up, check out their work on lustery.com. Did you enter into sex work at least partially due to student loan debt? Something tells me this part of our couple's story is pretty common. If you'd like to talk about it on the show, reach out via email or voice memo to email@example.com, or you can find me on Twitter @vegadreamcast. You can always remain anonymous. If you're into the show, please leave us a five-star rating and a review. POV is brought to you by Lustery, and this episode was hosted by me, Aria Vega. It was edited and produced by Kathryn Fischer and Adrienne Teicher, and our showrunner is Paulita Pappel. Lustery is the home of real-life partners filming their sex lives behind closed doors. If you're 18 or older, you can find us at lustery.com, and we're on Twitter and Instagram at Lustery POV. Until next time, lovers!